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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Theron Gyrow
Gradient Electus Matari
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Posted - 2008.07.29 06:34:00 -
[1]
I'm actually glad about these changes. When they go live (and I'm pretty sure that they will, no matter what is said or done), it will become obvious to everyone that blasters are no longer a viable weapon system and they will get some boosts, hopefully in a year or two. As it is now, they are already deeply flawed and not worth training for/using, but it's still possible to claim otherwise. -- Gradient forum |
Theron Gyrow
Gradient Electus Matari
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Posted - 2008.07.31 10:13:00 -
[2]
Originally by: Alkeena A solution that I would propose would be simply to not bother solving the issues presented with blasters here at all, but rather make blasters worth using for their original purpose--give me a 30-40% (+-) DPS advantage vs other gank platforms and suddenly all these new problems become an unfortunate, but fair, trade for the recoronation of the blaster platform as facestabbing king.
This I could go for, although the damage increase might need to be even larger - what it should be is dependent on how long the ship needs to close to effective range from range <x>, where also <x> is a design decision.
I think that at least some tracking increase would also be needed so that targets can't just either move away OR start orbiting close-range to avoid almost all damage. -- Gradient forum |
Theron Gyrow
Gradient Electus Matari
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Posted - 2008.08.01 10:55:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Archivian Specialatus
800mm auto +hail x6, seige x2 + javalin T2, 4 t2 gyro's +2 BCS. 5 hammerhead 2s. level 5 skills.
That's... an interesting fit. Now then, how does it get the 500 DPS tank you said it has at the same time? -- Gradient forum |
Theron Gyrow
Gradient Electus Matari
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Posted - 2008.08.01 12:33:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Archivian Specialatus 4)you can push neutrons with null ammo up to 0.15rad/s, amarr megapuls with scorch geta to 0.1. its a very big difference.
*sigh* Since the hint didn't take: Archiavian, please, please stop posting made-up numbers. -- Gradient forum |
Theron Gyrow
Gradient Electus Matari
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Posted - 2008.08.01 13:18:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Archivian Specialatus
Originally by: Theron Gyrow
Originally by: Archivian Specialatus 4)you can push neutrons with null ammo up to 0.15rad/s, amarr megapuls with scorch geta to 0.1. its a very big difference.
*sigh* Since the hint didn't take: Archiavian, please, please stop posting made-up numbers.
or u can go and build and test it urself. and then see for urself. Its not hard. really, fit stuff to ur ship, undock and turn it on. Use EFT, or even a calculator. Try actually working it out yourself. Obviously you havent tried to otherwise you could look at it and see for yourself.
I did, actually.
Megapulse with Scorch, maxed skills, four tracking comps with tracking speed scripts: tracking 0.06589. Neutron with Null, maxed skills, four tracking comps, fitted on Megathron: tracking 0.11623.
Also, I'm still interested in the 500-DPS shield tank fitted on Tempest that has four midslots and one (1) CPU free after fitting highs and lows like you said plus the best named XL shield booster.
In short, please do not spoil the thread by making up numbers. -- Gradient forum |
Theron Gyrow
Gradient Electus Matari
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Posted - 2008.08.03 11:08:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Liang Nuren
No, he said: DPS = chance_to_hit * dmg_multiplier * base_ammo_dmg / rate_of_fire
That's actually wrong, by the way. The hit chance also affects hit quality. With that (and wrecking hits, that's the 0.02) taken into account, the actual value for DPS is DPS = ((0.5 + (0.5 + chance_to_hit)) / 2 + 0.02) * chance_to_hit * dmg_multiplier * base_ammo_dmg / rate_of_fire
Thus, at 100% to-hit chance, turrets will do 102% of the easily-calced DoT due to wreckings. Whee.
More importantly, at 50% to-hit chance, turrets will actually do 38.5% of the easily-calced DoT, not 50% as might be expected. -- Gradient forum |
Theron Gyrow
Gradient Electus Matari
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Posted - 2008.08.03 16:57:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Theron Gyrow on 03/08/2008 16:59:12 Edited by: Theron Gyrow on 03/08/2008 16:57:10
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Originally by: Theron Gyrow That's actually wrong, by the way. The hit chance also affects hit quality. With that (and wrecking hits, that's the 0.02) taken into account, the actual value for DPS is DPS = ((0.5 + (0.5 + chance_to_hit)) / 2 + 0.02) * chance_to_hit * dmg_multiplier * base_ammo_dmg / rate_of_fire
Thus, at 100% to-hit chance, turrets will do 102% of the easily-calced DoT due to wreckings. Whee.
More importantly, at 50% to-hit chance, turrets will actually do 38.5% of the easily-calced DoT, not 50% as might be expected.
Hmmm... that actually lines out a bit better with what I've observed in TQ. I saw a proto formula for this, but I couldn't find the actual formula. Got a link to where you snagged it from?
It was from Scrapheap. I think it was from post http://www.scrapheap-challenge.com/viewtopic.php?p=114333#114333, but I seem to have misremembered it slightly. Not enough to really change the result, though. :)
-- Gradient forum |
Theron Gyrow
Gradient Electus Matari
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Posted - 2008.08.05 07:05:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Bellum Eternus
Originally by: Marn Prestoc
http://go-dl.eve-files.com/media/corp/Preston85/typhPestMegaAcceleration.PNG
#1, your graph shows that you didn't start the test from a standing start, like, you know, you would be when you warped in on someone?
Seems to me that the ships start at zero, but the graph starts at one second for some reason.
Originally by: Bellum Eternus #2, are you fitting plates and armor rigs on your ships when testing between TQ and SISI? Or are you just slapping on a 100mn T2 MWD and having a clean ship otherwise?
If ships are fit the same on both servers, the comparison is useful no matter what the fit is.
Originally by: Bellum Eternus #3, since this is clearly a graph using some formula, what is the formula, where did you get it, how did you get CCP to give *you* their in house design data and in house proplusion mod formula so that your graphs can be accurate?
This was reverse engineered a while ago, the result was V(t) = VMax*[1-e^{-a*t*(B/E)^(3/2)}] where t = time, a = inertia multiplier, E = effective mass, B = base ship mass. -- Gradient forum |
Theron Gyrow
Gradient Electus Matari
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Posted - 2008.08.06 16:52:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Gavin Darklighter Not just the megathron, all short-range solo turret BS are getting hit hard by this web nerf.
Yep. First, they cannot get to their combat range due to the decreased mobility outside web range. Second, they can hardly hit the target due to the increased mobility within web range. And third, even if they do, they still do only the same damage as medium-range battleships (Armageddon, Raven). -- Gradient forum |
Theron Gyrow
Gradient Electus Matari
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Posted - 2008.09.12 08:24:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Scatim Helicon Iuno if its already been bought up and holy crap I'm not reading 21 pages of this stuff, but has anyone posted results from testing Large Ion or Large Electron blasters against orbiting cruisers? People, it seems, are complaining that neutron Megathrons can't hit orbiting webbed cruisers, but shouldn't you be using neutrons against large targets and swapping out to something that tracks a little better (and maybe even dropping a tracking mod or 2 into your fitting) if you're going up against smaller, faster ships?
The guns used in the test in http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=834365&page=15#424 were ions, not neutrons (see http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=834365&page=15#428), and the cruiser was unfitted and at 1km orbit - 500m would be doubly worse. Electrons won't be hitting anything, either. -- Gradient forum |
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Theron Gyrow
Gradient Electus Matari
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Posted - 2008.11.06 08:40:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Xenomorphea Using a Neutron Blaster setup with Null you get about the same range as an Armageddon with Multifrequency (at 25 km both ships hit for exactly the same damage, using 2 damage mods on each setup) and 20% better tracking than the Mega Pulse.
Well, the Geddon has the option to use faction UV crystals for about double gun damage at that range compared to Mega+Null... And if tracking isn't needed that much, it'll get even more damage using Scorch. (Gun damage from Geddon w/ two dam mods and Scorch: 606 DPS at 45+10km; Mega w/ two dam mods and Null: 663 DPS at 11+16km. Same-sized drone bays.)
(With a third dam mod in its additional low slot, Geddon will outdamage a Mega with two dam mods at any range. It'll have a midslot less and be challenging to fit CPU-wise, though. Faction ANPs are pretty much mandatory if you go for RR fit.) -- Gradient forum |
Theron Gyrow
Gradient Electus Matari
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Posted - 2008.11.18 08:05:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Rogerano So if, for arguments sake, you put hpls on your astarte, you would have been able to hit the ishkur?
At heavy pulse's optimal (7.5km), you'd be able to get some hits in the same situation unless the webbed transversal speed of the Ishkur was at least 450 m/s. I haven't been able to get Ishkur to 1.2km/s with AB. So, yes - HPLs can hit a webbed AF at their optimal, blasters cannot.
(To avoid heavy neutron blaster damage completely, webbed Ishkur needs to go about 180m/s at blaster's optimal, easily done under a single web.) |
Theron Gyrow
Gradient Electus Matari
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Posted - 2008.11.29 12:22:00 -
[13]
Ok, I'll bite. Goumindong, in which case would you recommend that people train for a blaster BS? What should that pilot want to do that that would make sense? -- Gradient forum |
Theron Gyrow
Gradient Electus Matari
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Posted - 2008.11.29 12:50:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Lyria Skydancer
Originally by: Theron Gyrow Ok, I'll bite. Goumindong, in which case would you recommend that people train for a blaster BS? What should that pilot want to do that that would make sense?
A well flown hype or mega can rip a small gang of T1 cruisers/BCs apart. They are also excellent low sec pirate ships with good active tank.
So, your answer is "If you are planning to fly solo and you can count on your targets flying small gangs of T1 cruisers/BCs"? Note that I'm not commenting on the correctness of your assertion. -- Gradient forum |
Theron Gyrow
Gradient Electus Matari
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Posted - 2008.11.29 21:17:00 -
[15]
Goumindong, you seem to have missed a quite important question from me earlier. I'll quote:
Originally by: Theron Gyrow Ok, I'll bite. Goumindong, in which case would you recommend that people train for a blaster BS? What should that pilot want to do that that would make sense?
-- Gradient forum |
Theron Gyrow
Gradient Electus Matari
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Posted - 2008.11.30 21:59:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Goumindong
Originally by: Theron Gyrow Ok, I'll bite. Goumindong, in which case would you recommend that people train for a blaster BS? What should that pilot want to do that that would make sense?
I would recommend blaster battleships for solo/small gang combat in empire and low-sec.
Thank you. Some follow-up questions, then:
1) Do you consider solo BS a feasible playstyle as the game is now?
2) What do you think are the advantages of blaster BS in small gangs? For example, N blaster BS (Hype/Mega) plus support compared with the N Amarr BS (Geddon/Abaddon) plus same support? You can define N as you wish, but my take would be 2-5 or so. -- Gradient forum |
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